12 May 1908

(In Lahore before Zuhr Prayer)

Discussion With Professor Wragge From England

Professor [Clement Lindley] Wragge [(1852–1922)] is a world-renowned authority in the field of astronomy who hails from England. He has sallied forth from his native land for the purpose of a world tour, delivering highly acclaimed lectures on the subject of astronomy. Accordingly, he is currently staying in Lahore for a few days and has even delivered a lecture in Lahore which was attended by prominent Englishmen. Hazrat Mufti Muhammad Sadiq (ra) also had the good fortune of being present during this lecture.

At the end of the lecture, the aforementioned Mufti Sadiq (ra) met with the respected professor and presented to him the claim and arguments etc. of the Promised Messiah. As a result, the celebrated professor prepared himself to go at that very instant to be in the blessed presence of the Promised Messiah (as), but Mufti Sadiq (ra) said he would first get permission from the Promised Messiah (as) and then take the professor at the appointed time. Hence, the Promised Messiah (as) granted permission and the meeting took place on 12 May, before Zuhr Prayers. (Editor)

Question:1 I am a man of scientific bent. I see that this earth upon which we live is a tiny planet. Aside from it there are millions upon millions of components existing in God’s creation and, in comparison to them, it doesn’t even hold the substance of a particle. So then why are God’s blessings being restricted to this earth alone or to any particular religion or nation?

Answer: Actually, this is not correct, nor is it my belief that God Almighty manifests Himself through the means of a particular sect or nation. God Almighty has no love or affinity for any particular race.

On the contrary, the truth is that God is the God of the entire world. Just as He has created the provisions and resources for the external physical needs and nourishment of every kind of creation without partaking in any discrimination, and He has made food, air, water, light, and other provisions for all creation—He being Rabbul-alamin [Lord of all the worlds] according to our doctrines—in the very same manner He has been sending Reformers from time to time in every age for the [spiritual] reformation of every nation. As it is mentioned in the Holy Quran:

وَ اِنْ مِّنْ اُمَّۃٍ اِلَّا خَلَا فِیْہَا نَذِیْرٌ2

God Almighty is the God of the entire world. He has no [special] affiliation with any particular nation.

The various heavenly books that have been revealed at various times have no contradiction among them in essence because they are the befitting commands for reformation when the world completely deteriorates from a practical perspective and sin and iniquity, thievery, wickedness, etc. abound; people are overcome by their sensual lusts, straying far from purity; and, even in the manner of belief, people incline towards idol worship, abandoning God. So then the jealousy of God, who is the physical and spiritual Sustainer of man, demands that someone be raised to remedy the origins of evil and this type of Reformer is not outside the laws of Divine power.

Just as the wheat harvested during the times of Adam (as) or the previous Prophets cannot be the reason for our life [today], and the water that was for previous generations cannot quench our thirst, in the same manner from a spiritual sense we also need fresh and invigorating spiritual food and water.

This is the tradition of Allah that just as He nourishes and nurtures the physical realm, as the foregone nourishment is ineffectual [for the present], the same applies to the state of the spiritual realm, and both systems—physical and spiritual—operate side by side. Should someone deny [the existence of] God, then there is a different line of argumentation; [but] it behoves a believer of God Almighty to profit from examining both systems in tandem through the very same lens.

The One who created the physical realm is the very One who created the spiritual realm. Just as He nourishes the physical domain with fresh and invigorating sustenance—in the very same way—He also nourishes the spiritual domain with fresh and invigorating sustenance. Just as the physical constitution stands in need of fresh water—in the very same way—the spiritual constitution also stands in need of fresh heavenly revelation. Just as the body dies without sustenance—in the very same way—the soul also dies without sustenance. If the references cited in spiritual affairs are always related to the distant and outdated past, then what else could possibly occur other than the state of spirituality becoming a state of death?

Inherently, God Almighty invariably wills that He be known. In support of His recognition and existence, He perpetually reveals verities, insights, and fresh and invigorating Signs, and these affairs do not even hold any intellectual discord. This very system has been in operation for eternity. Millions of Prophets have appeared giving testimony through their practical conduct. They triumphed over the world by perfecting the argument [in support of faith].

Now, how can anyone refute such a mutawatir [continuously uninterrupted] and time-tested testimony simply by stating he is a scientist or philosopher? It demands that just as this pious party of men had given the evidence of their claims through their practical life and example, its refutation should be given in the very same manner. Yes, indeed—by all means—cast upon these people was the due right [of sceptics] to question: ‘Why are ancient fables and stories being cited? A living example or testimony should be presented.’ Accordingly, it is for this [demand] that I am prepared.

An astronomer cannot provide credible proof of the existence of God Almighty by merely reflecting upon celestial objects etc., or the solar system. Certainly, a possibility can arise that God should exist. The assertion that there is a God and He definitely exists has always been proven by the very tenets put forth by the Prophets. If people like myself did not appear in this world, then there would never ever be any factual and conclusive means of the proof of God in the world.

At the most, should someone be of a just mindset and possessed of a noble character, then the only conclusion that can be deduced from the absolute perfection, the inviolable design, the solar system, etc. is that there ought to be a God. Other than that, the fact that God actually exists and He is the Master, Possessor, and Sovereign of the universe cannot be possible without those who reveal God, having [themselves] come from God. Those people are the ones who enable the witnessing and by presenting fresh and invigorating Signs, it is as if they are ‘revealing’ God.

Question: It is written that there was an Adam and Eve. Eve was a weak woman. She ate an apple. Now, the punishment for her eating this one apple continues on for eternity. This issue is beyond my comprehension. In addition, when God has created billions of other [celestial] systems apart from this earth with which we are connected, why restrict the powers and favours of God Almighty to this earth alone?

Answer: This is not our belief. We do not assert that there is no other system beyond this heaven and earth. On the contrary, our God affirms that He is Rabbul-alamin [Lord of all the worlds]; meaning that, He is the Lord of all worlds and that wherever any population exists, there He has verily sent Messengers. Absence of knowledge does not necessarily imply absence of existence. Why wouldn’t the God who created such vast provision for this lone little tiny earth, have created any provision for all the other inhabitations? He is equally the Lord of all and aware of the needs of all.

The remaining statement that human toil and trouble is the consequence of Eve’s eating an apple is not a tenet of Islam. Indeed, we are given the teaching:

لَا تَزِرُ وَازِرَۃٌ وِّزْرَ اُخْرٰى3

Person X cannot receive the punishment in exchange for Person Y, nor is any benefit even conceivable from this. Eve’s devouring an apple is not the cause of these difficulties, toils, and punishment. On the contrary, the Quran has asserted reasons for these that are totally different.

Question: There are two topics that I wish to inquire about. First, what is sin? A person from one country believes something to be a sin, whereas someone from another country does not consider that very act to be a sin. Man gradually evolved from an insect until he became man and then he learned to distinguish between right and wrong, differentiated between truth and falsehood, understood good and evil, developed the knowledge of sin and reward, and in this way he subsequently gave way to disagreement. One person views an act as a sin while another does not deem it a sin and indulges in it.

The second is what is Satan? Even with God Almighty being the Possessor of such knowledge and power, how did Satan gain so much domination that God Himself had to come to the world for its salvation? What is the meaning behind this?

The Reality of Sin

Answer: My conversations essentially cater to the tastes of those who believe in the existence of God Almighty. The Being of God Almighty is a source of eternal pleasure and happiness for man’s life. It is said that a person has sinned in the event that the individual is separated from God or abandons Him in one way or another.

Furthermore, keeping human nature in view, God Almighty has also declared as ‘sin’ those acts of man himself which are ever so subtly injurious to his very own soul, although oftentimes man is unable to perceive their harm. For example, stealing and inflicting loss upon others by encroaching upon their rights is—in a manner of speaking—self-inflicting loss upon one’s own pure life.

In addition, those activities which run contrary to the chastity and purity of human nature are also referred to as ‘sin’, just as the manner through which an adulterer’s commission of adultery and trespassing the rights of others ruins his own chaste nature and mires himself in various kinds of physical and spiritual hardships. And then the accompanying requisites—near and far—of those [sinful] activities are also understood to be an extension of sin.

God Almighty, who is the One Greatest of all and Most-Knowing of all, is the True Creator of man and every tiny particle, and of their properties He is also the Creator and the All-Knowing. When He pronounces Judgement out of His perfect wisdom and perfect knowledge that something is harmful for you, and its perpetration is never ever advantageous to your interests, rather it is harmful from beginning to end, then it is not becoming of a [mere] mortal—yes, indeed, a mortal of right-minded nature—to defy this [judgment]. We see that when a doctor prescribes some abstinence for a patient, how the ailing individual carries it out without dispute or debate. Why does he do so? It is because he believes the doctor holds far greater knowledge than himself.

In short, in the very same way there are some things that are harmful for the body or the soul of man whether man understands it or not. Some things are such that even if God Almighty did not give a command for them, they would still be harmful. In the field of medicine there are also certain ‘sins’ that have been established. Not having the knowledge of the fundamental principles of medicine cannot be an excuse for an individual who violates the canons of medicine. Should anyone not believe this, then inquire [directly] from physicians and doctors.

The point worth remembering is precisely this that the root of sin lies in those very activities the perpetration through which take man further away from true chastity, piety, and purity. The genuine love of God Almighty and the very union with Him is true pleasure and real comfort. Therefore, being distanced and disconnected from God is also sin, and is cause for pain, suffering, and grief. Those matters that are disapproved by God on account of His Holiness are sins.

If there is disagreement among people in some areas, then on the other side the greater majority of sins are unanimously agreed upon throughout the world. Lying, stealing, adultery, and injustice and others are such matters that the people of all religions and nations unanimously believe them to be sins without doubt. However, keep in mind that the root of sin is composed of those very matters that distance one from God. They run contrary to the Holiness of God Almighty. Sin is verily that which is against the inherent debt owed to God Almighty and is harmful for the nature of man. Everyone perceives sin.

You see, when someone slaps an innocent person knowing he has no right to do so, he will ultimately become repentant and ashamed in his heart on his own at a later time when his anger dissipates, and will feel that he has done wrong. Someone who feeds the hungry, gives drink to the thirsty, and clothes the naked, experiences a kind of sensation within his inner self that he has carried out a virtue and an act of goodness. Through the light of faith, the heart and conscience of man make him understand at the time of every deed whether he has carried out an act of virtue or committed an act of sin.

Satan

As for Satan, it should be remembered that two forces have been placed in the design and nature of man, and those two are the opposite of each other. They have been placed for the purpose that man, being tested and tried through them with a successful outcome, be proven worthy of the nearness of Allah. Of these two forces, one force pulls towards goodness while the other invites towards evil. The force pulling towards goodness is called malak or an angel and the force inviting towards evil is called Satan.

In other words, you can think of it as two forces functioning with man, one bestowing good and the other bestowing evil. Should anyone be averse to the terms ‘angel’ and ‘Satan’, then think of it in this very way, as these two forces in man cannot be denied by anybody. God Almighty did not will any evil at any time. The works undertaken by God Almighty are the most virtuous of virtues.

You see, if the existence of sin were not in this world, then there would be no virtue either. Virtue is born out of sin; the existence of virtue is born out of the very existence of sin.

Look here, if someone encounters the opportunity to commit adultery and has the ability [to indulge in it], but subsequently abstains from that sin, then this is called ‘virtue’. If someone encounters the opportunities for stealing and cruelty and other sins, and is also capable of committing them, but thereafter abstains from their perpetration and safeguards himself, then he carries out a virtue. To refrain from sin when having [both] the opportunity and ability to sin, this alone is worthy of reward and an act of virtue.

Question: Two different forces operate in the world: The positive and the negative. If we always employ the positive and never make use of the negative, then the negative would gradually accumulate and gain force to such a degree that it would one day erupt at any given moment and suddenly destroy the world. The same situation applies to good and evil. If only virtue upon virtue were conducted throughout the entire world and no one committed any evil, then similarly one day evil would gather enough strength to destroy the world.

Answer: The Promised Messiah (as) said: You see, if an individual is incapable of shouting, then his mild-mannered converse would not be considered a moral excellence. If man were to remain permanently stagnant in one state alone, unable to change to the other side, then virtue itself could never be virtue. The presence of both, abundance and scarcity, produces virtue. Were circumstances one-sided and other faculties not granted to mankind—man being eternally compelled to do good; completely unpossessed of the ability to perpetrate evil—then what things would the terms ‘obedience’ and ‘virtue’ apply to? Allah Almighty has given man a choice up to a limit. Even there he can change sides; he maintains the strength to carry out virtue and the option to perpetrate evil. Thereupon, he reaps the reward according to whatever he does.

Look, if there were no bad manners, then what could be called good manners? Vile conduct only exists when virtuous conduct exists simultaneously. Whenever any evil conduct appears in the human mind, then man, picturing it in his mind, condemns it; yet he assigns virtuous conduct the name of any act of distinction and praises it. If the mind holds no image of any evil act, then virtuous conduct similarly ceases to exist. Virtue is always distinguished from evil. Had only one aspect been created, then there certainly would not have been any reward nor any satisfaction.

(Joy is produced out of sorrow, delight out of misery, light out of darkness, sweet out of bitter, antidote out of poison, good out of evil, and virtue out of sin. Had these opposites not been created in the world, then life itself would have been totally bland.) Had only one aspect existed, it would have then permeated the design of nature, in which case how could there be any reward or recompense? How could it be a source for pleasure? It would have been an involuntary impulse from the corresponding actions that proceed instinctively from man. Keep in mind that man has been made to be endowed with choice. Man has a choice to do good or evil, to be kind or cruel, to be magnanimous or miserly, and only through the persistent evaluation of both sides can an opinion be formed regarding any particular individual being good or bad. The very meaning of deeds is to wield the ability of the other extreme as well. The one wielding the power to take revenge who does not take revenge, carries out a virtue.

However, how can he who does not even have a hand with which to strike in retaliation say that he has carried out an act of virtue and kindness by not hitting anyone?

قَدۡ اَفۡلَحَ مَنۡ زَکّٰٮہَا ۪ۙ﴿۱۰﴾وَقَدۡ خَابَ مَنۡ دَسّٰٮہَا ﴿ؕ۱۱﴾ 4

It is clearly understood from this noble verse that both aspects form the very foundation upon which virtue and goodness stand. He who is granted only one ability without being conferred the other ability, is [akin to] a picture that can’t be erased.

The person who denies the [existence of the] angel and Satan, is—in a manner of speaking—a denier of self-evident truths and objects proven to be perceptible by senses. Every day we see people carrying out virtues as well as the perpetration of crimes throughout the world, and both forces are simultaneously executing their functions throughout the world. Not a single human being can deny this. Who does not experience the benefit and consequence of these two within himself? Here, no philosophy or logic can take effect so long as both forces are present and executing their own respective functions within their own respective spheres.

As for the remaining point that if only virtue upon virtue was carried out, then sin would accumulate force and destroy the world, I can only say this much that I have nothing to do with [the hypothetical scenarios of] if this happens, that will happen or if that happens, this will happen. I only see this much that there are two innate dispositions created [in man] prepared for the sake of virtuous conduct as well as for the sake of bad [conduct]. I do not venture beyond this.

Question: There is a well-known dilemma amongst Christians that the world had gone astray, but then God purchased it back from Satan. Is this true?

Answer: The Promised Messiah (as) said: We do not believe in such frivolous statements. This statement is absurd and the Christians should be asked about it.

Question: It appears from Christian belief that Adam fell from a higher state to a lower state whereas man progresses from low to high.

Answer: This is not our belief nor do we agree with it.

Question: I believe that the life hereafter is a form of being. On account of this, man moves from one reality to another reality. I am particularly fond of spiritualism. I wish to inquire what the next life will be like and what circumstances will be there.

Answer: The Promised Messiah (as) said: Without a doubt, after coming to the end of this life, another life of a new realm will begin, but this is not the time to explain its details.

For those who will have sown virtue in this life, there will begin a continuation of purity, and for those who will have sown evil, will be a continuation of difficulty and punishment. That new life will have a sort of connection with this life and will not be completely cut off. The realm of dreams presents a similitude. One life exists while awake, but a great transformation verily manifests during sleep. Some details are known, but their explanation cannot take place at this moment because this matter requires a great deal of time; it cannot be explained within minutes.

Question by the Lady: Is it possible to have any contact or conversation with those who have passed on from this world and have died, and find out about their true circumstances?

Answer: It is certainly possible for a person to encounter spirits in the form of visions, but extremely self-denying devotion and strenuous exertion is vital for the realization of this phenomenon. I have tested and tried it myself and have met with spirits on several occasions and spoken to them. One can inquire from them various beneficial and meaningful matters, medicines, etc. I have personally met the spirit of Hazrat ‘Isa (as) [Jesus] and the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, as well as some of the Noble Companions (ra). I am experienced in this matter, but the difficulty for man is that until he strenuously exerts himself by practicing this path and adhering to the rule of conduct, this phenomenon cannot be realized. Moreover, given that this phenomenon can’t possibly come within the reach of just anyone, it is for this reason that it is viewed as a mere myth, there being no fact in it.

The human heart is the nucleus of vast and marvellous wonders. However, just as immense efforts are exerted to dig up the earth, remove the dirt, and then purification is done in order to attain clean and clear water; in similar fashion, it is obligatory to strenuously exert and strive to attain intimation of the heart’s capacity for wonders. The primary point is precisely that the reality of this phenomenon must verily be accepted, of which I am personally a witness and possessed of experience.

Question: I had received some correspondence of this nature from a committee and my particular aim in being present here with you was to inquire you about them and hear your guidance. Would you be able to give me some of your precious time?

Answer: These days I am feeling sick. I am unable to endure excessive work. Of course it is possible should my condition become healthy.5