Seventh Paper

DEBATE 29 MAY 1893

PROCEEDINGS

The meeting was again held today. Dr. Henry Martyn Clark proposed that since Mr. Abdullah Atham could not come because of illness, he would offer to take his place and that Reverend Ehsanullah should be appointed the Chairman representing Christians. The proposal was accepted by the permission of Mirza [Ghulam Ahmad] Sahib and the Chairman representing Muslims.

Dr. Clark started to dictate his reply at 6:16 and finished at 7:15, and after due comparison between the transcribers, it was read out loud. Mirza Sahib started at 7:55 and finished his dictation at 8:55, and after comparison, it was read out loud to the audience. Dr. Henry Martyn Clark began dictating his reply at 9:40 and finished at 10:35, and, after comparison, it was read out loud to the audience. Afterward, the two Chairmen signed the written documents and thus the first part of the debate was adjourned.

29 MAY [18]93

Statement Of

DR. HENRY MARTYN CLARK

(Representing Deputy Abdullah Atham)

I am very surprised by many of the things that I have heard Mirza [Ghulam Ahmad] Sahib say, but I was most surprised upon finding him capable of saying, why, rationally, Ramchandra and Krishna should not be considered God, and why should the proof from Hindu scriptures not be considered reliable? What is this that you are saying, Mirza Sahib? What Divine works have they performed and which claim of theirs has attained the level of established truth, and what was the need of citing their examples in a sitting of the People of the Book? Do you not differentiate rationally between Christ and Ramchandra and Krishna, and do you consider the majestic Bible to be comparable with Hindu Books? In my opinion, it is a sin to even liken a Truthful Prophet and issues of the People of the Book with idol worshippers and their Books. And if you wish to make such comparisons, you will have to answer to Allah Almighty. The Hindu Books that you have mentioned are not even historically correct. Now, what should we look at mostly to make a distinction? You also said that since many people made the claim that ‘we are God’, and their claims turned out to be false; therefore, since Christ has also claimed that he is God, he is also false.

My dear Sir, what is this that you say? If nine rupees out of ten turn out to be counterfeit, would the tenth rupee also be counterfeit? A ruling of this sort cannot be given. A decision should only be given after taking into account all circumstances and particularities that may be present. Since there are false claims, it will become clear to you that there must be a true claim also. Had there been no genuine currency, there wouldn’t have been any counterfeit currency.

Third—We have presented many prophecies to Mirza Sahib, but he objects that we have presented only claims in support of claims because the prophecies that you refer to are claims in themselves and how can a claim serve as proof in support of another claim? I submit my dear Sir that this is a strange misunderstanding of yours. Divine prophecies of Allah Almighty can in no way be counted as claims for they are truths and we do not accept them to be mere claims. We accept them as pronouncements of our Master. Could any mere mortal dare to call the statement of his Creator and Provider to be a mere claim? We do not even have the right to examine and evaluate them, because if it is a prophecy, then it has to do with the future and not the present; so how can we settle issues related to a destination we never arrive at? We have the right to assess and evaluate the Prophet and satisfy ourselves that he is indeed a Prophet of Allah. And once we come to know that, then we must accept the message he conveys to us with gratitude and respect, considering it not to be his message, but rather the message of his Master and our Master. When a prophecy comes down, it is accepted, and when it is fulfilled, it comes to completion. Who, apart from Almighty Allah can distinguish between those matters that have not yet taken place? Now, my dear Sir! Look in the Old Testament. Many Prophets informed people about Allah Almighty—that from Allah Almighty we have been told that such and such things will happen. The New Testament is also the Truth revealed from God and has descended from Allah Almighty. Many others write that this guidance by God, that such and such of My servants who had said at such and such an occasion, that that is being fulfilled today and at this place. My dear Sir, we have perforce to believe. Evasion is against human nature because the testimony of Allah Almighty and His pronouncements are above all other testimonies.

Sir! We presented three lists to you containing prophecies of the Old Testament, with references and the places in the New Testament where it was written that these have been fulfilled. What the Prophets of Allah had said six, seven, or eight hundred years earlier came to fulfilment word for word. My dear Mirza Sahib, if you still consider this to be a mere claim, it will only be obstinacy and prejudice.

You have also asked whether Christ had himself, with his own blessed tongue, ever accepted the fulfilment of those prophecies in his favour? Sir, he did, not once or twice but many times, and not one or two but all of the prophecies. Please look at Matthew 22:41–46, John 5:39, Matthew 11:10, as compared with Malachi 3:1, Luke 24:27, Matthew 6:17.

Fourth—Sir, you have enquired about John 10:35. We have repeatedly explained it, but we are surprised that you do not understand the point. I make this last appeal. Perhaps, you keep on referring to this verse because you believe that there is a denial of Divinity in this verse. On the contrary, Christ makes a very strong claim of his Divinity upon this occasion. It is as if he is saying to the Jews, that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God, and when the Word was made flesh, those people to whom the Word of Allah reached became worthy of being called Divine by virtue of this blessing. In other words, for following the Word, they received this blessing. If he called them gods to whom the word of God came, do you say to him who is the Word personified that you utter blasphemy? Sad indeed is the state of your intelligence. The two words worthy of paying attention to are [makhsus—sanctified] and [bheija—sent].

You had indicated some verses stating that these words are found in them also, but upon searching, we encountered no reference to these words in them. Your references turned out to be wrong. We had even submitted for your attention the Greek. You told us there are many more references, but you never gave us those. Please pay attention that the [bheija—sent] in reference to the sending of Christ was of a totally different type from others. John 16:28 states I came from the Father, and am come into the world; if there is a denial of Divinity in this, then please tell us whether any human being said that, ‘I came from the Father and am going back to the Father.’

Then you say that the statement that Christ was sent is not correct. We have no right to say it should have been like this or that. We have to decide according to what has been said; otherwise, we might as well say that we are wiser than Allah Almighty and His Prophets, and had it been up to us, we would have said it like this. This is not wisdom but slander. Alexander the Great had a general by the name of Parmenion. When Alexander had conquered Persia, Parmenion said that had he been Alexander, he would have married the daughter of Darius and never left Persia, to which Alexander replied, ‘Had I been Parmenion, I would have also done the same, but since I am Alexander and not Parmenion, I will do something else.’ Therefore, because at that time it was the Christ and not Mirza Sahib, and remember that this was not the only dialogue between him and the Jews so that everything should have happened at that time; this affair went on for three years.

Fifth—If Christ was the Creator, what did he create? The answer according to John 1 is, ‘Everything’. If Mirza Sahib abhors this verdict, then he might as well reject the whole of the New Testament and declare it to be a man-made book, lewd and full of lies.

Sixth—When he became man, where did the attributes of Allah go? This is the question from Mirza Sahib, and the answer is very short and succinct. Although Allah Almighty was eternally blessed and is, according to Philippians 2:6, He suppressed Himself.

Seventh—Your foot slipped on a mustard seed and arrived at the mountains, and what wondrous shoe wrapped in pashmina cloth you used to strike our heads telling us to wake up, or even a mustard seed worth of faith shall not remain. Please do not worry, our faith is not going anywhere. I submit that this saying is only for Prophets and not for us. For it is clearly stated in 1 Corinthians 13:2, and though I have all faith so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.

And as for the magnificent edifice you have raised in favour of miracles upon the foundation of Mark 16, it is all to no gain, because the foundation is faulty.

We have clearly told you that the apostles who accepted Christ, even in the state of disbelief, were told that they would have such and such Signs. The word in Greek is [ or pisti] and it means, ‘those who have believed’. It is present tense, and the form does not in any way mean, ‘those who will come to believe’. Even in the times of the apostles, not everyone had that privilege’. They were like one body but different limbs. A disciple asks, is everyone an eye, or ear, or can they all show miracles and perform marvels and cure the sick, etc. as has already been mentioned. And then it is clearly written that these special bounties will, in any case, come to an end and what will remain forever, is love. Our Lord stated very clearly that the everlasting Sign by which the world will recognize you—that you belong to me—will not be marvels and miracles, but love. See John 13:34, 35. By this, all men will know that you are my disciples.

Then you ask us that according to John 12:14, it is our duty to do such deeds as Christ did or even greater than those.

Dear Sir, you must look at the text carefully. Here he was addressing his disciples, not me nor you. The works that I have been doing; you will keep on doing, he said. And, indeed, they purged many demons, captured many snakes and raised many dead.

And you will do greater things than these as I go to the Father. And this is the truth, and it did happen just like this, because, only a few believed upon the preaching of Christ, but with just one announcement of Peter, three thousand became believers. It is written in the Acts that he only used to preach among the Jews while his disciples roamed the world. However, we must remember that pupils are not greater than the Master.

You ask me, and I shall make it happen! He told them that their job was to pray. Therefore, it is clearly written that they kept on praying and Lord Jesus Christ kept giving them results and continues to do so.

Eighth—You inquire if Signs are not necessary for every age? Certainly not! They are needed in the beginning, but the beginning does not last forever. Signs and miracles are meant to complete the teachings and faith.

And what once has been made complete by Allah Almighty, should not have been sent so incomplete; so there would be no need to make it complete again. The Last Sign was Lord Jesus Christ himself. And, it is also manifestly clear that when some new teaching is sent, it needs a special person who can deliver the message and there should be special Signs by which Allah Almighty should prove that this is My Messenger and this is My Teaching. Now, there are a thousand ways in which research can be done; that is to say, scriptural, rational, historical, etc. Where some task can be accomplished by ordinary means, Allah Almighty does not employ special means.

The Jews kept on receiving heavenly food while roaming in the wilderness where no food was available, but the day they arrived in a country where things were available, that heavenly food also vanished.

Miracles are like a seal of attestation that this is My servant and this is My Teaching. After that, there is no special person and no special attestation, and that enterprise is made to function ordinarily. Thus, according to your belief, his Excellency Muhammad(sa) was a Prophet of Allah, and Almighty Allah kept revealing the Quran to him through Gabriel. And it is right that in the beginning, it should happen thus. But now, the followers of his Excellency Muhammad(sa) are spreading this teaching and religion, and not Muhammad(sa) himself, and the Qurans are being published through printing and not through angels.

Ninth—Why did Lord Jesus refuse to show miracles? Regarding this Mr [Abdullah] Atham spoke briefly already. Even at that time he did not refuse but told them that they would see the Sign of Prophet Jonah. You did not read this out, that just as he remained three days in the belly of the fish, so would the son of Adam also remain three days in the womb of the earth. He gave them the Sign of his death, burial, and resurrection and there has never been any miracle greater than this in the world, and he showed that miracle (John 21:25).

The Apostle says that he accomplished many other works, and what reference does he give for his work? Please see John 14:11.

Tenth—You ask why he did not come down from the cross. How should he have come down? He had come into the world for that very task to offer atonement for the world. Similarly, Satan had asked him to bake bread from stones. He neither did this nor that, because each of these deeds involved the worship of Satan.

You suggest that if he had come down from the cross, the Jews would have believed in him immediately. How exactly do you know this? Having witnessed which other miracle had they believed in him, and did they believe in him after seeing him resurrected? My distinguished sir, faith is not created through any miracle. Was there any lack of miracles shown by Moses to Pharaoh, yet that hard-hearted person remained a disbeliever? There is no guarantee that with a Sign one will be granted faith also—that is to say, the one who witnesses the Sign may or may not believe—this is a Divine thing. I have given the example of Pharaoh.

Christ had brought a man named Lazarus back to life from the dead. The Jews became so angry that they proposed killing them both. It is clearly written in the Glorious Bible that if they do not believe in Moses and the Scriptures, they will not believe even if someone raised from the dead were to go to them.

Eleventh—You said that a man’s body is replaced every four years, so how could atonement have taken place. It is not after four years; this change occurs after seven years. Well, the change is of the physical body and not of one’s being. In your opinion atonement was not possible because of this. And perhaps now you will also agree that after seven years, or after four years, a man will no more remain the husband of his wife, nor the father of his children, nor the owner of all his possessions. So as the end of this time nears the marriage should be registered again, so his honour and property remain intact.

Sir! Are such questions and objections becoming of your bright intellect!

29 MAY 1893

Statement Of

HAZRAT MIRZA [GHULAM AHMAD] SAHIB

I was extremely surprised to hear all that Dr. [Henry Martyn Clark] Sahib presented today by way of proof in favour of the Divinity of Jesus, the Messiah—strange indeed were the statements that issued forth from the mouth of Dr. Sahib. It should be remembered that this claim of Divinity that is attributed to the Messiah(as), is not some small claim. It is an immensely grandiose claim.

According to the belief of the Christian gentlemen, any person who denies the Divinity of the Messiah(as) shall be thrown into Hell. And according to the teachings of the Holy Quran, whosoever says someone is, in reality, God, or that I am verily God, shall become deserving of Hell. As Allah, the Lord of Glory, states:

1

Meaning that whosoever says that ‘I am God beside the True God’, him shall We requite with Hell.

And it is also stated before the above verse:

2

And the Christians say that, ‘Allah, the Exalted, has taken to Himself a son.’ Holy is He from having sons. Nay, these are only honoured servants, Part 17 Ruku‘ 2.

And so, after this, when we look to see what proofs do we have in hand regarding this, we find a treasure trove of such proofs.

On the one hand, we find sound human intellect rejects this belief, while on the other, inductive reasoning testifies that till today no other example of its like has been found other than the one in contention right now.

Meanwhile, the Holy Quran, which establishes its truth with innumerable proofs, rejects it, as it states:

—(Part 17, Ruku‘ 16)3

Meaning that they worship beside Allah such things for the divinity of which Allah Almighty has sent down no Sign—that is to say, there are indeed always Signs for a Prophet, but they cannot be of any use to prove Divinity—and then the Holy Quran says that for this belief of theirs, ‘they possess no knowledge’; namely, they do not even have any logical arguments by which their belief could be strengthened. And then the Holy Quran says:

—(Part 16, Ruku‘ 9)4

[Meaning:] And they say the Gracious God has taken the Messiah unto Himself as His son. O Christians, you have put forth a most weighty claim. The heaven and earth might well nigh rent asunder thereat, and the mountains begin to tremble for you make a man into God.

Then, after this, let us look whether the Jews were involved in any way in fabricating this God. The Jews were the first to inherit the Torah, and prophecies of their Old Testament are presented in support of this belief due to sheer misunderstanding. Did they—who used to recite their books daily, pondering over them, while Jesus, the Messiah, had also testified in their favour that they understood these books very well and that his followers should heed their statements—ever agree with even one of the many prophecies presented, saying that yes this prophecy informs us that Jesus, the Promised Messiah, was indeed God, and that the Messiah who was to come would not be a man but would, in fact, be God? When we look, we do not find any such thing.

Every wise person can contemplate that if at all any meanness or prejudice would have developed in the Jews towards the Messiah, it would have arisen after his arrival. Before his advent, they used to look at those prophecies with great affection, interest, justice, and freedom and used to recite the verses from these books daily and used to write commentaries [in their explanation].

How strange it is then, that these meanings remained totally hidden from them. Dr. Sahib says that manifestly clear prophecies about the Divinity of the Messiah were present in the Old Testament. Now we are wonderstruck and astonished! If there had been only one prophecy that the Jews did not understand, they could have been excused, but how is it possible that despite there being hundreds of prophecies, even then they did not understand a single one? And at no time did they ever hold the belief that the Messiah would appear into this world as God. There were among them Prophets and rabbis and sincere worshippers of God, but no one from among them wrote, by way of explanation that, yes, a God is also to come in the garb of a man.

You must know this, that it is impossible that an entire people such as this, who held under its sway every single aspect of the Torah, should so unanimously commit the same error. Were all of them really ignorant? Were they all indeed stupid? Were all of them prejudiced, and if they were prejudiced, then what was it that made them so before the advent of the Messiah? It is clear that prejudices arise when there is something competing going on. Who could they hold prejudice against when no one had claimed to be God? Therefore, this consensus of the Jews beforehand that the Messiah to come would be human and not God is sufficient proof for a seeker after the truth. If they had desired to hide the truth needlessly, why would they admit to the coming of a Prophet? Apart from this, other parts of the Torah also support and testify to the truth of this. Thus, it is clearly written in the Torah not to make a God of anything that you see in the heaven or the earth. As it is written in the Old Testament that, ‘Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth’ (Exodus 20:3).5

It is also written that if a Prophet or a seer of dreams appears among you and shows you signs or some miracle, and the same should come about as mentioned in the sign or the miracle, and he asks you to worship and obey some other deity whom you do not know, then do not pay any attention to that prophet or seer of dreams.

There are many such references in the Torah, and it is not necessary to write them all here, but above all is this declaration of Jesus himself that is worthy of attention. He says: ‘The first of all the commandments is, Hear O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord.’6 Then he says, ‘And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent,’ John 17:3.

And the word [bheija—sent] has been used in the Torah on many occasions and always with these same meanings, that when God Almighty, by appointing some servant of His and making him a Prophet sends him into the world, then at that time it is said that this is the servant who has been sent. If Dr. [Henry Martyn Clark] Sahib can prove any other meanings for this [bheija-giya—one who is sent] word anywhere else beside the disputed verses, then he can claim from us any recompense that he desires in return. It should be clear to Dr. Sahib that the words bheija-giya as well as [makhsus—sanctified] have been used with reference to a human being. It would be sheer usurpation that now some other meaning should be given to these words.

Nevertheless, if the Christians had all been in agreement regarding their principle of faith, and no group or sect from among them had remained outside of this agreement, then they could still have had some reason to be proud but the situation is that now Dr. Sahib does not even have this much in his hand. I ask Dr. Sahib to state whether from among your various sects, the Unitarian sect recognizes Jesus as God? Is that sect not obliged to adhere to the same Bible that you are bound to? Is that sect unaware of the prophecies that you are aware of ?

So here, on the one hand, we have Jesus, the Messiah, while trying to prove his innocence of the charge of blasphemy, saying as recorded in John 10 that he was no different in being referred to as god from any of the others so mentioned in the Bible, then he also declares his lack of knowledge that he does not know anything about the Day of Judgement as to when it will take place, and then he also does not like that anyone should call him good, and again and again he says that I have been sent by God Almighty and counsels his disciples that they should take the prophecies and other such matters to mean exactly what the Jews take them to mean and to listen to, and heed, their words.

And then, on the other hand, we see that the miracles of the Messiah are just like those of the other Prophets; nay rather, to some extent less than them by virtue of that story of the pool—which Dr. Sahib must know well—by taking a bath in which people used to be cured of those same types of illnesses as is mentioned regarding the Messiah. And furthermore, we see that there is discord in Christendom itself. While one from among the Christians considers Jesus to be God, the other sect rejects their claim, and the Jews forcefully reject their claims as well; furthermore, intellect also opposes these unreasonable ideas. And then there is that last Prophet, who has established with hundreds of proofs and Signs, that I am a true Prophet.

Thus, despite so many proofs against it, what purpose can the idea of one particular sect serve? And even that, without any proofs that the Messiah was indeed God! And what respect does it merit being given? That is why I had said that since so many concerted attacks are being made on your claim, you should present such proof in order to establish the Divinity of the Messiah that is altogether free of ignorance and obscurity, and regarding which no one could have any difference of opinion. Unfortunately, you have not paid any attention to this and say that the prophecies you present are proofs and not claims. Dr. Sahib, please ponder justly. When there are so many people standing over these prophecies to oppose and refute them, and the very people who are inheritors of the Old Testament do not accept the meanings that you ascribe to them, and when Christendom itself is split on the issue—then, are these not mere claims or are they something else? In other words, when the matter is in dispute among your own sects, you should first settle the issue with the Jews, then come to a decision with the Unitarians, and then, when everyone has come to an agreement that the Promised Messiah who was to come is indeed God, you can present this to the Muslims by way of a decisive argument.

Then, you say that for us there is no need of any Signs in this age, that the Signs were specific to the earlier epochs, and that when an object is once established, what need is there for Signs?

I say that had this matter been established, why would there have been so many disputes and why would there have been people present within your own faith to refute these meanings? Thus, since neither the soundness of these prophecies has been established, nor the claim by the Messiah that they apply to him, nor indeed consensus [among Christians] as to the particular meaning ascribed to them, then how can you say that these are proofs?

You should also remember that your saying that Signs were necessary only for the time of the disciples and that the disciples were the ones who were being addressed is proven false by this following argument. If the fact that the disciples were addressed about a certain matter is to mean that in that matter the things mentioned should only remain limited to the disciples, then surely in such a case the whole Gospel is lost because all the moral teachings that the Messiah gave were addressed to the disciples. Now, you have the opportunity to say that we do not need to turn the other cheek if we are slapped on one since this was only enjoined to the disciples.

I am surprised at your inquiry about the comparison between Ramchandra and Krishna on the one hand and Jesus, the Messiah, on the other; and your argument that if ten people make the same claim, can one of them not be right? I am surprised at what you have written. I was merely arguing that if by making a claim anyone could be right, then there are many in the world that make claims. If there is one among them whose claim is true then let him present his proof; otherwise, we or you have no justification for selecting one from among the ten claimants without any proof.

This is exactly what I have been saying and writing repeatedly, that you have not presented—thus far—any rational arguments in support of the Divinity of the Messiah. And the scriptural prophecies which you go on presenting, have no value, being disputed as they are, which you translate to mean one thing, the Unitarians another thing, and the Jews something else again, while the Muslims have their own understanding. Therefore, how can those be considered to be decisively conclusive? You know that only that merits being called an argument which is decisively conclusive and in its own right illuminating and manifest and affirmative of something, and not that it should itself be in need of proofs; for, a blind man cannot guide another blind man to the right path.

I reiterate what I said earlier, that you know that in this tumultuous world, man is always in need of assurance and perfect cognizance, and every person indeed desires that the arguments that he wants to be accepted by others should be so categorical and sufficient that no room for argument should exist concerning them. And, when a seeker after the truth remembers his death and his state of disbelief and ignorance and remembers the punishments that will be given to such people, he trembles, and thirsts and hungers for any Sign that could be a source of assurance for him and be a proof to act as a support for him. So I wonder why this tree of the Christian faith is being declared to be without fruit and why a path to assurance is not being presented to another who is showing a path to assurance in opposition to them. If it is not the custom of God Almighty to show Signs, then why does He show Signs in favour of Islam? Is it possible that darkness should prevail over light? Please leave off all such talk because I know full well that your heart will never ever be in accord with these statements of yours.

It would be better that we conclude this issue with a written agreement between us. If, according to the conditions of this agreement that I suggest, I am not able to show some Divine Sign in accord with the will of Allah, the Lord of Glory, then I shall be prepared to suffer whatever type of punishment that you desire; indeed, I would be ready even to face the penalty of death. But if it is proven, then it will be your obligation that being fearful of Allah, the Lord of Glory, you would embrace Islam.

Dr. [Henry Martyn Clark] Sahib! How can it be that the Christian faith should be the true one, but Islam should be the one that is helped? You may continue in your own right to pray to Jesus Christ, that he should humiliate and leave this person without any answers and I shall pray to my God and then the True God shall prevail.

What could be a better way than this to achieve a resolution of the matter?

Who can accept your claims without any supporting arguments? Why do you go on presenting them again and again? Has your community accepted all these claims unanimously? Please follow the straight path and adopt the course by which truth and falsehood can be distinguished.

Statement Of

DR. HENRY MARTYN CLARK

In his reply, Respected Mirza [Ghulam Ahmad] Sahib has spent time at length on the Jews. We have no idea why he has made them arbiter between himself and us. Sir, the children of which darkness are you referring to? If the matter depends on them not accepting, then it will affect the dignity of your Holy Prophet a great deal as well, because in opposing him also, they remained his deniers steadfastly.

My dear Sir! The decision does not rest on any human being. Books are available, language is not incomprehensible, and God Almighty did not grant wisdom to the Jews only. Please point out if there is any error in any statement. If there is an error in the meanings, then do bestow upon us the correct meanings, but why do you thrust the misfortune of the Jews upon our heads?

You say that this community was pious and God-fearing. However, if you read the Holy Torah and the scriptures of the Prophets, their true condition will become illumined upon you. See the Book of Isaiah what God Almighty says about them: ‘A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face’ (Isaiah 65:3).

And look at the Prophets—what they have to say: ‘murderers, merciless beyond the limit, killers of Prophets, those who turned their faces away from their own God.’ These are their qualities in the Word of Allah, yet you consider them a pious community! Indeed, God has gone to the extent of saying about them that an ass knows its owner and the ox knows its fodder, but My people do not know Me. Those whom Allah Almighty calls more foolish than an ass or an ox; you wish to use them to settle the dispute! Mirza Sahib, you cannot do that.

My dear, it was as a punishment for their hard-heartedness that God made their hearts dark so that they would not understand—Isaiah 6:10. And this curse was on them at the time of the advent of Lord Jesus Christ and still is. You can see by looking at the following verses—Matthew 13:15, Acts 28:27, and 2 Corinthians 3:15–16—upon whom you have allotted the task of arbitration.

Yes, because of their faithlessness, their city was destroyed, proverbially exiled from their homeland, dispersed all over the world, disgraced and are still roaming just as the prophecy of Christ had declared.

Second—Then you put forward the Unitarians; my dear Sir, they are not a sect from among the sects of Christianity. Why do you seek answers from me about all the follies and disbelief of the world? And the Roman Catholics—owing to the profanity of their hearts—call Mary the mother of God, while the Unitarians through their foolishness (complete their disbelief ) in another way. What is my concern in all this? I have the Book in my hand. Its writings are there; convince me if I am wrong, otherwise, do not give me examples of these unenlightened people. Our belief is in Jesus and not in the sects. If I were to start giving such accusatory replies, I could show many splits within Islam right now. Please, my dear Sir! Look at your own home before you take the pain to criticize and do not depend on whether a certain man accepts or not, but rely on the Book of Allah.

Sir, you have asked me to present an argument which no one doubts. I admit freely that I am unable; nay rather, God is also helpless in this respect. Nothing in the world is more apparent than His Holy Being yet will you not find a thousand fools in the world who will say that God is nothing? When you call into question the Holy Being of the Maker and express doubts regarding that Being Truly Worthy of Worship with whose Glory the whole world is filled, then what argument can we present that someone will not object to?

Then, you ask how the Christian religion can be true if it bears no fruit. My dear Sir, this religion is not without fruit and at the proper time—that is to say, this very week—its fruits shall be presented to you. Now, I have a very significant conflict with you. Why did you label me a hypocrite? Holding me to be a hypocrite that I say with the tongue that which is not in my heart. You accused me of this. I have been listening to your claims of prophethood, but this is a claim to Divinity, that you can see what is in the hearts. My final submission is that it is appropriate that the Holy Being of the Creator should not be comprehensible to His creations. The Being of God Almighty is essentially all essence, and if we could comprehend His Holy Being, then what would remain beyond that? Would we not become His equal? Without a doubt this would be the case.

This is precisely why I cannot come to accept the Muhammadan concept of Unity that even a child can understand, while my intelligence testifies that the pure Being should be far more than that. In your concept of Unity what aspect is left beyond understanding, it is as if the finite has managed to encompass the infinite somehow. But the concept of ‘Plurality in Unity’ is such that no one has been born who can understand it nor will any such person be born in the future. Can you tell us if human intellect can comprehend God Almighty? God forbid! God forbid!

The Being of God is such that it can neither be proved by reason nor can it be denied by rationality. It is a matter hundreds of thousands fold beyond human intellect and only God Almighty can settle this issue with clarity. What pertains to God, only God knows and neither I, nor you, Mirza Sahib, have the right to use logical arguments, but to accept. And the correct teaching of the Books of Allah Almighty is indeed that Trinity with One God is blessed for eternity.

The Prophets continued testifying in favour of the Lord Jesus Christ, and Almighty Allah continued manifesting this by examples: in sacrifices, in the permissible and non-permissible; in circumcision and the Temple. And then He kept on declaring that I, God Almighty, am Myself your Saviour; and that a virgin shall become pregnant at the appointed time, and shall give birth to a son, and you shall name him Emmanuel; meaning, ‘God with us’. He came on time and was born.

This matter continues with the attestation of the angels; with the witness of the disciples; and his own claims, marvels, and miracles. Yes, God Almighty Himself having been baptised by the hand of John the Baptist as He comes out of the water, the Holy Spirit descended on Him in the form of a dove, and God Almighty declares from heaven in a loud voice, ‘This is my Son with whom I am pleased.’ See, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all present because these three are one.

I do not wish to prolong the matter, but the testimony of the opponents is also available as is the testimony of Satans, who were crying out, ‘You are the consecrated of God!’ There is the evidence of the Romans and Pilate. Sir, all the evidence is available for you in the New Testament, and all the Jews were not faithless either. According to you, his disciples were also Jews. Three thousand of them became Christians instantly after just one sermon.

Even if a community is accursed, all its individuals are not accursed. Even now, thousands, hundreds of thousands of Jews consider the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour. And when you presented this issue that when Jesus asked, ‘Whose son is Christ, and why does David refer to him as Lord,’ they fell silent and no one could answer. My dear Sir, convincing a reasonable person is not a difficult matter at all, but to remove the obstinacy of the heart is a feat for God.

Then, in your lecture, you claimed that the marvels are with Islam. We have no objection to seeing them. But supposing one or more marvels are indeed wrought, do also tell us how we would know that they are from Allah? You yourself have cited (Deuteronomy 13:1, 2) that false prophets will arise to test you and show miracles and Signs. You can also see Mark 13:22 and Galatians 1:8. Therefore, my dear Sir, the need is not only of marvels but how to be convinced that they are from Allah. And I submit to you with great respect that I am heartbroken with your marvels. You have yourself stated that there is a difference between a Sign and a miracle, but what that is, I do not know.

Then you stated that you do not know what sort of Sign He will show. And then that you do not know what manner of Sign He will show. Sir! In this there is a clear attempt at evasion from showing any miracle and marvels, whereas you had already agreed to this in your paper Hujjatul-Islam, p. 14–17.

In short, what a blessed occasion this was for you to establish the claim that you had been so vehemently making for so many days. A thousand pities that you let such a good opportunity pass through your hands and avoided the issue with your absurd interpretations and meaningless accusatory replies. By your avoidance, this humble one’s simple mind understands that this claim of yours is all by way of you trying to make your followers happy. By way of kindness, please do not mention these claims in front of Christians again because it would be needless humiliation.

Sir, we had heard so much of your scholarship and broad-mindedness, and we had great hopes from you. It is a pity that you presented the same old contentions and arguments and statements that have been making the rounds in this country’s bazaars for the last forty years.

Mirza Sahib, we are sorry that we found no way to be happy with you. You asked for logical arguments; I gave you those. You asked for scriptural proof; I presented them to you; you desired revelation, so I accepted that. On this occasion, I remember something from Matthew 11:16, 17, 19, and you can see it for yourself. Lastly, I submit that, in the first instance, the one and only Son of God came to this world as a Prophet and his advent is outside the scope of the inductive reasoning you presented like the birth of Adam and Eve. What answer did you give for this? None.

Secondly, the claims of Divinity and its proofs were presented from the Holy Bible together with detailed verses; its possibility shown based on reason, and its occurrence proven from the Word of God. What answer did you give? None.

You continued needlessly to emphasise the 10th chapter of John. Considering logically, there is nothing there.

You were presented with prophecies from the Old Testament in support of Christ, and their fulfilment was shown to you in the New Testament. The answer? None.

Fifth—Such sentences from the Old Testament like, from among us like unto one equal, [THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS], etc. etc. from which Divinity can be deduced. Your answer? None.

With very strong arguments we proved the status of Jesus Christ as a perfect man and Perfect God and as a manifestation of Allah. Answer? None.

Seventh—Cogent and detailed replies were given concerning the verses that you presented about the Judgement Day, etc. You did not give any reply.

Eighth—Sir, you quote many references from the Quran, and they are pointless for people like us since we do not consider it to be an authenticated Book.

Ninth—You delivered a long discourse on Mark 16, and tried to convince us about the need for miracles. That was answered fully and well. What answer did you give? None.

Tenth—Salvation and personal revelation were irrelevant and contrary to the conditions of the debate. Therefore, we did not pay much attention to that.

Eleventh—Sir, your claim to being a man of marvels has most clearly been proven to be wrong. You evaded the issue by using counter accusatory replies. These are the proceedings of the last week, do please tell us which of our argument did you break or bring about even an iota of change? You continued to give your explanations and never paid any attention to what we said.

Now, this is the last time of the first part of our debate. I submit to you in the name of God that in accord with God’s Word, all that He spoke through the Prophets in the previous ages has ultimately been bestowed upon us through His Son, the Heavenly religion and the way to salvation, and the forgiveness of sins. Now it is for everyone to leave prejudices behind and accept the Will of God. I testify that Christ is, without doubt, the Son of the One Almighty Allah and the personified Word of Allah and he is going to be the Judge for all people on the Day of Judgement.

As to the prayer duel, I would say briefly that our God has not taught us to curse anyone. He does not harbour any enmity for any of His creation. He provides light and rain in equal measure to the just and the unjust. Religions in which curses are allowed, their followers are free to believe in them and pursue them. We are the children of the King of Peace, and just as we seek good and mercy and forgiveness for ourselves, we seek, in lieu of curses, the same for you.

We pray that Allah Almighty, through His limitless mercy, shows you the right path and keeps you in peace and faith so that when you pass away from this transitory world to the everlasting one, your end is good.

I make a final request, Mirza Sahib, that you have exceeded all bounds. Forgive me, but I say with a pure heart, you said that according to the revelation, with cause unknown, you will be victorious; you will have the victory in this war. Sir, you yourself can assess whether the situation described above is of victory or something else. Sir, to think in terms of defeat and victory should never be the goal. Quite the contrary, let there be defeat—no matter—but, O Allah! Your truth should become evident. I am sorry that I have not noticed this in your behaviour.

My dear sir, the Christian religion has been here for the last 1900 years, and it is like an anvil over which many a hammer have been worn out, and many will continue to be worn out in the future. Was a matter of 1900 years duration destined to be turned over—here and now—in these days? When I look at the opponents of Christianity, I recall a Greek fable. A snake entered an ironmonger’s house. It saw a file lying on the floor. Full of poison, the snake started to bite the file. The file said to the snake, carry on biting, as much as you desire, it is only your teeth that will be ground down. My dear sir, you really did try everything but failed to reply with either logical arguments or scriptural arguments. And the revelation and marvels that you were so proud of proved unsound and useless. Many efforts were made, but the result of this first part is evident to every reasonable person.

My dear Mirza Sahib, you kept on talking of victory loudly, but it did not become evident to anybody else. Dear Sir, in this war and every war, today and till the end of time, magnificence, dignity and majesty, glory and Power and Supremacy and victory belong to Christ who is the blessed God forever. Amin!

Published at the Riyad-e-Hind Press, Amritsar