Fifth Paper

DEBATE 26 MAY 1893

PROCEEDINGS

Mr. Abdullah Atham started dictating his reply today at 6:11 and completed it at 7:06, which was then read out loud. Mirza [Ghulam Ahmad] Sahib started dictating at 7:22 and completed it at 8:22. After this was read out, a question was raised that some members of the Christian Society would like to reply to the comments addressed to the general body of Christians by Mirza Sahib at the end of his paper. First of all, Reverend Thomas Howell requested permission and Mirza Sahib consented on his behalf. After this Reverend Ehsanullah stated that according to the rules, no other person is permitted to speak from the Christians, even though the question is directed at the Christian audience. Therefore, this question should be regarded as irrelevant. Upon this, the President of the Islamic Society said that an answer should be given in the same order as the question. In other words, since the question was raised through Reverend Abdullah Atham to the Christians, so the answer too should be done in the same way with the same order. Thus, at the time of the answer to this question any Christian gentleman who requests permission to answer the question may be presented. Upon this the President of the Christian Society stated that this technique would disrupt the debate, it is better if we just remove this question. Mirza Sahib stated that it would be much more reasonable if we limit the question to Reverend Abdullah Atham alone, and this solution was then agreed. After this, Reverend G. L. Thakur Dass requested permission and noted that Mirza Sahib has full right to ask this type of question from the Christians but because this matter had been previously settled it was allowed to remain so. Then Reverend Abdullah Atham dictated his answer at 8:15 and completed it by 9:22, then Mirza Sahib dictated his reply at 9:30 and completed it by 10:30.

Afterwards, the Presidents signed the respective papers and they were then given to each party. After this, the session was adjourned.

Statement Of

DEPUTY ABDULLAH ATHAM

Our statement is that Christ is a perfect human and a perfect manifestation of Allah according to the Divine Word, and denial of these two facts is impossible. However, the Jews most certainly did not know him to be the manifestation of Allah, and so whenever some word would escape from his mouth expressing that he was the manifestation of Allah, the Jews would accuse him of blasphemy and become prepared to stone him.

Thus, the contentious moment under discussion is also of this same nature and upon this occasion, Christ said that even if, in my human capacity, I call myself the son of Allah, it is not at all more than how your Prophets were called gods. So, my saying this as a human is not greater than this. So, how can it be said here that he denied being the manifestation of Allah? The verses regarding him being the manifestation of Allah are indeed there in the list that we presented yesterday. On what presumption does Mirza [Ghulam Ahmad] Sahib reject this? What fact did he find in them indicating its falsehood? Which truth seems to be the cause of his rejection? Can some particular thing having to do with the humanity of Christ be opposed to his Divinity or being the manifestation of Allah? Certainly not, by any law! The truth is that even in his humanity too, he was a person sanctified and sent.

The word which is translated as ‘sanctified’ is [ or agiazo] in Greek, and it means holy, and one sent. The word points to what he used to say that I am from the heavens and you are dwellers of the Earth. That is to say, I have been sent to the earth from the heavens, and most of our commentators believe this to mean Divinity.

Then, has His Excellency Mirza [Ghulam Ahmad] Sahib not seen in the 10th chapter of John, that Christ claimed at the outset that I and the Father are one, which caused the Jews to pick up stones presuming that being a creation, a human, he claimed to be Allah? Then, when he had also saved his human self from being accused of blasphemy, he presented the very same claim that I and my Father are one. So why does the gentleman say that he became afraid? Indeed, instead of being afraid he presented his claim of Divinity even more openly.

And it is true that at one point Lord Jesus said that I am not aware of the time of the hour and that he also stated at another occasion that it is not in his power to assign who to sit on his right and left, but these assertions pertain to his human self; the words having to do with Divinity are different; for example, he says, I have authority over the heavens and the earth. Then, it is also true that on another occasion the Lord said, Why do you call me good, there is no one good but God, but he said this to a person who did not believe him to be the Saviour and Master of all things. So, when he said in the end that if you wish to be perfect then give all your wealth to the poor and follow me, he became sorrowful and left, but had he accepted him to be God and Master, and that he can forgive him a thousand times over, then he would never have left sorrowful. This shows that he did not believe in his Divinity; that is why Lord Jesus said why do you call me good; meaning, why do you become deceitful because you know that there is no one good apart from the Lord Himself?

2) Mirza [Ghulam Ahmad] Sahib stated nothing from the Quran regarding the perfect path to salvation, then what use is any other thing of ours? As Christ said, ‘For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his soul?’

Thus, first and foremost, it is necessary and proper that excellence is shown in the Quran regarding salvation. An abode there [in the Hereafter] means no worries if we have one here or not, but if we do not have that, then all is lost.

Knowledge about the Unity of God was present even in the Bible. Moreover, what has the phrase regarding the Unity of God to do with salvation? Has it not been said, most correctly and properly, in verse 19 of the Second Letter of James the Disciple, that, Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

There are four parts to the contents of the Torah apart from the confirmatory matters. That is, Commandments about morality, commandments about ceremonies, commandments about jurisprudence, and historical episodes—now all these are matters of typology that is to say, a sort of illustrative signs. Accordingly, the morality shows the needs, the ceremonies illustrate what needs to be done, the jurisprudence illustrates the theocracy—namely the sovereignty which God Almighty exercises Himself without the involvement of anyone else, and historical episodes which are filled with illustrative signs. Now, if we begin to write these matters here, it would take a really long time, so instead, we present our book, Andruna Bible, which will make all these matters clear.

In the Gospel, the Man fulfilling these very signs is shown so how can these [the Torah and the Gospel] be considered to be differing shariah laws [spiritual laws]? However, the Shariah of the Quran is apart from this and is specific to the Quran, and its burden lies upon you—not us.

4) How can truth need any proof? Is it not itself indicative of its purpose? What further clarity do you wish for it? The verses that we presented in the form of a list—are there any among them that are not clear?

5) We were asked that while God has made the heavens and the earth and all things, what has Christ created? In reply to this it should be known that as a human being he did not create anything, but, as the Second Person of the Trinity it is written in Proverbs 8 and John 1 that whatever has been made, is made through him, and that no man has seen God but the Son, through the means of creation, He has made Him known.

7) We did not say that the Lord Jesus became afraid; we stated that he extinguished their unjustified anger.

8) Christ did not make the former teachings more complicated; rather, he made the complicated teachings clearer.

Thus, by becoming the manifestation of Allah, he exhibited those attributes that could not be shown in any other way. As we see in Matthew 6:9, God is the Father, in John 3:16 God is Love, and in John 4:24 God is the Spirit. Multiplicity in Unity was clearly stated in the Torah as it is in this verse: ‘Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil.’ Nevertheless, the Jews had a covering of ignorance upon their eyes, and the Lord lifted that covering.

9) The skill of explaining Divine Words is not something the Jews inherited even though they are the children of Prophets and trustees of the revelation and have continuously listened to them. This is because they have become filled with rancour and prejudice. And when the Lord Jesus said, ‘Do as they say but do not do what they do’, this clearly means that they say what the Torah says, but their actions are opposed to it.

10) Whether the body of Christ was subject to aging or not, what has this to do with atonement? At the moment I will not say more. (The rest, later).

Statement Of

HAZRAT MIRZA [GHULAM AHMAD] SAHIB

In my statement of yesterday something remained to be written about salvation, as to what is the reality of salvation and in truth, and in reality, when and at what time can it be said concerning someone that he has attained salvation.

Now, it should be known that Allah, the Lord of Glory, has stated this in the Noble Quran regarding salvation:

1

And they say, ‘None shall ever enter Heaven’—that is to say, he will not attain salvation—‘unless he is a Jew or a Christian.’ These are their vain desires. Say, ‘Produce your proof, if you are truthful.’ That is to say, show us what salvation you have attained, ‘for he attains salvation who submits himself completely to Allah.’ In other words, he dedicates his life to the path of God and spends it in His way, and after so dedicating his life, he becomes involved in the doing of good deeds, and becomes, ‘the doer of every manner of good deeds, it is only such a one, as shall have his reward with his Lord. And no fear shall come upon such, nor shall they grieve,’ meaning they shall gain full and perfect salvation.

Here Allah, the Lord of Glory, states regarding the Christians and the Jews that the salvation that they, each on their own, claim to have gained, is just the expression of their desires. And the reality of their desires, which is the soul of life, is certainly not found in them. In fact, the true and real salvation is that salvation, the reality of which becomes palpable to its recipient in this very world, and that happens this way that the recipient of such salvation is granted the ability by Allah Almighty to devote his entire being in the way of God Almighty. In such a way that his death, and living, and all his actions become for God Almighty, and he should become completely separated from his nafs [self], and his desires become the desires of God Almighty. And then this should not just remain simply a resolve in his heart, but all his limbs, and all his powers, and his intellect, and thinking, and all his abilities begin to be spent in this very path. Then will it be said regarding him that he is a mohsin, a beneficent one; in other words, he has truly discharged what was due by way of service and obedience insofar as was humanly possible. So such a person is the one who attains salvation. Just as Allah states at another place:

—(‘Part 8, Surah al-An‘am, Ruku‘ 7)2

Say, ‘My prayer and my devotions and my life and my death are all for that Allah who is the Lord of the worlds, who has no partner, and it was this status that I was commanded to attain, and I am the first of those who submit.’

Then, after this, Allah, the Lord of Glory, writes down the signs of such salvation in His Holy Book, because even though what He has already said serves to set apart a person who has truly achieved salvation; yet, because worldly eyes cannot see this inner salvation and link with Allah, and the matter of one who is connected to God and another who is not, remains obscure to the worldly, so Allah informed us of those signs.

Now, there is no group of people in the world, who consider themselves to be not-saved and Hell-bound—ask anyone and see. In fact, when asked, a person belonging to any nation will say that the people of his race or religion have attained the salvation of the highest order. This being the case, how could this matter be settled? So, for this determination to be possible, God Almighty has established the signs of the real and perfectly faithful and of those who have truly and perfectly attained salvation and has declared their distinctive characteristics so the world should not remain in doubt. Thus, from amongst those signs, mention is made of some signs herein below:

—(Part 11, Ruku‘ 12, Surah Yunus)3

Meaning: Behold! Those people who are the friends of God Almighty have no fear, nor shall they grieve. Those are indeed the ones who have believed—that is to say, they became obedient to Allah and His Messenger—and then, kept to righteousness. For them are glad tidings in the present life and also in the Hereafter—meaning that God Almighty will continue to give glad tidings to them through dreams, and revelations, and visions—there is no changing the promises of Allah, and this indeed is the supreme triumph that has been appointed for them; Meaning that, through this triumph they shall be set apart from the others. And those who have not truly attained salvation will be unable to speak when they face them.

Then, at another place, God Almighty states:

—(Part 24, Ruku‘ 18)4

Meaning that: As for those who say, ‘Our Lord is Allah,’ and then remain steadfast, their distinguishing sign is that, the angels descend on them, saying: ‘Fear ye not, nor grieve; and rejoice in the Garden that you were promised. We are your friends and Guardian in this life and in the Hereafter. Therein you will have all that your souls will desire, and therein you will have all that you will ask for—an entertainment from the Most Forgiving, the Most Merciful.’

Now please observe the signs mentioned in this verse: Divine converse, and acceptance, and God Almighty being the Guardian and Provider, and laying the foundation of a heavenly life for them in this very world, and being their Helper and Supporter.

And then again in the verse which I mentioned yesterday, which is 5, there is an indication towards this very sign that one who gains true salvation always bears good fruits, and he constantly goes on receiving the fruit of heavenly blessings.

Then, at another place, God Almighty states:

—(Part 2, Ruku‘ 7)6

And when My servants ask about Me, you should say to them, that, ‘I am near.’

Meaning that when those who believe in Allah and His Messenger wish to find out the favours that God Almighty has kept exclusively for them and that are not for others, you should say to them that I am near. In other words, the difference between you and others is that you are My distinguished ones and near, while the others are forsaken and far—I answer the prayer of the supplicant from among you when he prays to Me. That is to say, I begin to address him and talk with him and bestow upon his prayers the status of acceptance. So they should hearken to My commands and believe in Me so that they may attain to goodness.’

Similarly, at many other places in the Holy Quran Allah, the Lord of Glory, has set forth the signs of those people who gain salvation. If all of those were to be written down, then it would take up a lot of time. For example, one such verse from among those is:

—(Part 9, Ruku‘ 18, Surah al-Anfal)7

Meaning that, ‘O ye who believe! If you fear God Almighty, then God will grant you a distinction over the others.’

Now, I ask Deputy Abdullah Atham respectfully if there is any way of attaining salvation written down in Christianity, and if, in your view, that method is correct and proper and those who follow it attain to salvation, then certainly the signs of those who attain salvation must also have been written in this book. And surely the true believers who attain salvation and thus become liberated from this world of darkness, their characteristics must be written somewhat in the Gospels. It would be very kind of you if you could give me a brief answer whether or not those signs of salvation are found in yourselves or among some such very great holy men who are leaders and guides and at the head of your group. If they are found then their proof should be presented. And if these are not found, then you can understand that the thing in which the signs of its soundness and perfection are not found, then can such a thing be considered to be safe and existing in its original state? For example, if in turpeth or the herb scammonia or senna the essence of these herbs is missing, and it does not have the purgative effect, can such turpeth or scammonia be said to be pure?

And apart from this, the method that you gentlemen consider to be the way of attaining salvation, when we compare it to the other way that the Holy Quran has presented, your method’s artificiality and unnatural character becomes apparent clearly and it becomes proven that in your rites no correct way has been established to attain salvation. For example, look, the method that Allah, the Lord of Glory, presents in the Noble Quran is that when a man devotes his entire being and his whole life in the way of God Almighty, then in such a case he hands over a true and pure sacrifice by sacrificing his self. And thus he becomes deserving that he should receive life in exchange for death. And this is also written in your books that the one who gives his life in the way of God Almighty, he becomes the inheritor of life. Thus, the person who devotes his entire life in the way of Allah, and puts all his limbs and faculties to work in this way, has such a one still not delivered over a true sacrifice? After having given his life, is there anything else that he has left behind?

But the justice of your faith I fail to understand, that one person should sin and another should be sent to the gallows in lieu thereof. If you ponder upon this with care and attention then, without a doubt, you will realize this to be a shameful practice.

Ever since God created man, He also made a natural law for him to attain forgiveness, and this I have just mentioned. And in reality there is, in this natural law, which is innate and in place since the very beginning, such beauty and excellence, that God Almighty has placed in the very nature of man, both things—just as He has placed sin in his nature, similarly He has placed therein the remedy for sin. And that remedy is to so devote one’s life in the way of God Almighty as could be called a true sacrifice.

Now, in summary, you believe that this remedy to achieve salvation, which the Holy Quran presents, is not correct. So first you should present, as opposed to this remedy, in the same reasoned and logical way, the form, which is proven to have been presented by the tongue of the Messiah, also giving the text of his discourse on the matter. And then, after this, present also the signs of this, in his own blessed words, so that all the members of the audience present may be able to make a determination right now.

Deputy [Abdullah Atham] Sahib! No truth can be established without signs. In the world as well, there is a standard by which truths can be recognised, and that is to evaluate them based on their signs. So we have presented those proofs as also our claim regarding them. Now, this is a debt you owe us. If you will not present and will not prove by what reason the way of salvation attributed to the Messiah is true, correct, and perfect, then, till such time, your claim can never be accepted as correct, but rather the way that the Noble Quran has mentioned will be considered correct and true because we see that it has not just made mention of it, but has shown it in actuality and I have presented its proof. You should now please not mention this story of salvation without proofs, and reason by way of a mere claim alone. Let any person from among yourselves stand up and proclaim that I have gained salvation in accord with the way the Messiah has stated, and those signs of salvation and perfect faith which Jesus, the Messiah, had prescribed are present in me. So how can we deny this? What we desire is indeed salvation, but nobody can accept mere talk. I have already stated before you that I have seen with my own eyes the bestowing of salvation by the Holy Quran, and I again swear in the name of Almighty Allah, that I am ready to show this in a contest face to face. But first you must answer me ‘yes’ or ‘no’, whether true salvation together with its signs is found in your religion or not; and if it is found, then show it and compare and if it is not found then just simply say that salvation is not found in our religion, and in such case I would be ready unilaterally to provide proofs from our side.

Statement Of

DEPUTY ABDULLAH ATHAM

The Remaining Answer: Mirza [Ghulam Ahmad] Sahib says that why did Christ not give this or that type of proof when, after accusing him of blasphemy, they wanted to stone him so it would become clear that in reality, he is Allah?

Hearing this I recall a story. Once a man said to me that it is extremely shortsighted of God Almighty to have affixed just two eyes below the forehead; why did He not affix one on the head so he could safeguard himself from the calamities above and another in the back so he could see from behind? The bewildering thing here is that over a thing meriting no wrangling or altercation is it permissible to carry out so much questioning why and wherefore. It is unreasonable to say why this or that was not done, but it is reasonable to question what was done.

We ask, was it not the allegation of the Jews that being a man you claim to be God and this is blasphemous? And the reply given was that even being a man I can call myself the son of Allah and this is not blasphemous because the Prophets also were human beings and they were called Allah. Thus, where, in all this was there any question regarding his Divinity?

The second matter that Mirza Sahib speaks about is that Christ asked the disciples to pray for him. This is not true; you should look at the reference. It is written that Jesus told them that you should pray for yourselves so that you do not suffer any trial.

Third—The answer to the gentleman’s prayer duel of yesterday is that we Christians do not see any need for new miracles to be shown regarding the old teachings, nor do we feel that we have any ability for it. Apart from this, we have been promised that whatever we will ask for in accord with the pleasure of the Lord that will be given to you. We were not promised any signs but the gentleman is very proud of it, and we do not refuse to see miracles.

If kindness on the creatures of Allah indeed lies in settling the issue by showing a sign, then, for our part, we have declared our inability; you, by all means, should show a miracle. And at this time, in your last paper of yesterday, you had said, and there was an indication of this today also, that: What need is there now for further discussion on these matters? We are both advanced in age, and the grave is our final abode. We should have mercy upon the creatures of Allah, so let us settle the matter with some heavenly Sign. And you also said that I have received a special revelation that in this field you shall be victorious. And certainly, the Just God shall be with those who stand upon justice, certainly, most certainly.

The answer to this summary of your statement, as we have already written earlier, is that we are not debating you because we believe you to be some sort of Messenger or Prophet or a person who receives revelations. We have no concern with your personal thoughts and reasons and revelations. Assuming that you are only a Muhammadan person, we are conversing with you about the religion of Christianity and Muhammadanism based on those rules and tenets that are commonly accepted in both. That is all well.

Nevertheless, since you call us to enter a contest, being ready to show a special Divine power, we are not at all averse to seeing it, be it a sign or a miracle. Therefore we present these three people, from among whom one is blind, one lame, and one dumb. Heal from among them whomsoever that you can, and whatever becomes incumbent, or due from us, for this miracle, we will discharge. You believe in a God who is not just said to be All-Powerful but is All-Powerful in reality, so He will surely be able to restore them to health; so what need is there for the delay? And as you said, He will be with the just—most certainly He will. Have mercy on the creatures of Allah and do so quickly. And you must have known already that you would have to deal with this situation today. The God who had informed you through revelation that in the field of this battle you would be victorious, He would also have told you that the blind and other afflicted ones would be presented. So fulfil your challenge in front of all these Christians and Muhammadans.

Fourth—What you told us regarding salvation from the Quran, its summary has to do with specific deeds and we will review this matter in the coming week because that will be the appropriate time when our attacks will start, and your assaults will come to an end. And we will examine this expiation of the deeds of righteous people that you have presented to see whether this is perfect or deficient. Similarly, we will examine the method of salvation presented by Christ on that same occasion.

Statement Of

HAZRAT MIRZA [GHULAM AHMAD] SAHIB

You presented the excuse regarding the Messiah that he only said, ‘Is it not written in your law, regarding your prophets, that they are gods?’ so that he could extinguish the anger of the Jews.

Furthermore, you also stated there that the Messiah gave such an answer by virtue of his human dimension. This statement of yours merits the attention and consideration of fair-minded people. It is clear that the Jews had asked this question citing the statement of the Messiah that, I am the Son of God Almighty, as blasphemy, and deeming him to have—God forbid—committed blasphemy. And in reply to this question, it was, without doubt, the responsibility of the Messiah that if he believed himself to be the Son of God Almighty—not due to his human self, but due to his Divinity—then he should have openly and fully presented his claim, and given them proof of his being the Son of Allah, because at that moment all they wished for was some evidence. But the Messiah did not turn his attention to this and likening himself to other prophets, gave the excuse, and did not fulfil his responsibility which a true preacher and teacher always desires to fulfil.

And your statement that [makhsus] means ‘holy’, cannot establish any distinction for the Messiah, because this word makhsus has been used in your Bible about other Prophets, etc. as well. Look at Isaiah 13:3. And your considering [bheija-hu’a—one who is sent] to imply Divinity is also a strange translation. Look how it is written in 1 Samuel 12:8 that Moses(as) and Aaron(as) were ‘sent’. Then in Genesis 45:7 it is written that God has sent me here. Then in Jeremiah 35:13, 44:4 this same verse is present. Now, should we translate these words here also to mean ‘Divinity’? It is sad that you try to distort and twist the simple and straightforward statements of the Messiah to make them fit your own interpretation, and you intend to make the proof that the Messiah presented to vindicate himself, appear to be useless and absurd. Could the Messiah have been held blameless in the eyes of the Jews just by saying that by virtue of being God, without doubt, I am indeed the Son of Allah, but by virtue of my humanity I am equal to the other Prophets and what was said in their favour has also been said in my favour?

And could this type of flimsy excuse remove the accusation of the Jews that hung over the head of Jesus? And had they accepted that the Messiah was, without doubt, indeed the Son of Allah, by virtue of his Divinity and that they had no quarrel with this, but yes, by virtue of being human why is he calling himself the Son of Allah? But it is manifestly clear that if in their hearts the Jews had only been concerned that the Messiah, being simply a human, is declaring himself to be the son of Allah like other holy and select men, then why would they have labelled him a blasphemer? Did they consider Prophets Israel, Adam, and other Prophets in whose favour the words ‘son of Allah’ have been applied to be guilty of blasphemy? No. Indeed, their question had arisen because they too had been deceived into thinking that the Messiah, in reality, considers himself to be the Son of Allah.

And since the answer must be provided in the context of the question being asked, it was the responsibility of the Messiah that he should adopt that same line of thinking based on which they had raised the question. If, in reality, he was the Son of God Almighty, then he should have presented before them the very prophecies that Deputy Abdullah Atham is presenting outside of these sessions. And he should have shown some examples of his being God and the matter would have been settled. This is absolutely not the case that the Jews were not asking to be provided the proofs of him being the actual Son of Allah. At this stage, there is no need to write further regarding this.

Now let it be clear that I had written to Deputy Abdullah Atham that just as you claim that salvation is only in the Christian religion, similarly it is written in the Quran that salvation lies only in Islam. Now, you have only presented the claim in your own words whilst I have presented those very verses from the Holy Quran. It is clear, however, that a claim possesses no respect or regard without any proofs. Thus, it was asked, that the signs of one who has attained salvation are indeed written in the Noble Quran, according to which signs we see that those who follow this Holy Book indeed attain to salvation in this very life; but in your religion, the signs that the Messiah(as) has written down for those who attain salvation—that is to say, of the true believers—where are they to be found in yourselves? For example, in Mark 16:178 it is written that, ‘And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.’

So now I respectfully entreat you—and if there be any harshness or bitterness in these words, I seek pardon for it—that these three sick persons whom you have presented is the very sign of distinction that Jesus(as) had specifically established for the Christians, saying that if you are true believers, then verily your distinctive mark is that you shall lay your hand upon the sick and they shall be healed. Now forgive my audacity, but if you claim to be true believers, then here at this very moment are three sick persons presented by your very own selves; do lay your hands upon them, and if they are healed, we will accept that you are undoubtedly true believers and have attained salvation. Otherwise there remains no path to acceptance, since Jesus, the Messiah, also says that if ye have faith even as [little as] a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place, and it shall remove; but well, at this moment, I do not ask you to move a mountain because they are at some distance from this place. However, this has become such an excellent opportunity since you yourselves have already presented the sick, now lay your hands upon them and show them to us cured. Failing this, you will be deemed to possess not even a mustard seed worth of faith.

It should, however, be clear to you that this accusation cannot be levelled against us because Allah, the Lord of Glory, has not stated this, in the Noble Quran to be one of our signs that specifically this indeed is your mark of distinction that when you place your hands on afflicted people, they will be cured. He has, however, told us that I will accept your prayers in accord with My will and pleasure and that, at the very least, if a prayer is not worthy of acceptance and is against the Divine purpose, then you will be informed of it. It has nowhere been said that you will be given complete authority so that you go and do as you will with all power and might.

But it seems as though the Messiah gave an order and bestowed upon his followers the power and authority to cure the sick and afflicted, etc., as is written in Matthew 10:1, ‘And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.’

Now, this has become your responsibility, and it will certainly be a sign of your level of faith, that you show us these afflicted people cured, or at least admit that you do not have even a grain of mustard seed worth of faith in yourselves.

And remember that each person will be held to account according to his Book. In our Noble Quran, it is nowhere written that you will be given the power to do as you wish. Instead, it states clearly: 9. Meaning that say to them that ‘Surely Signs are with Allah the Exalted,’ whichever Sign He chooses, He manifests that very Sign; His servant has no power over Him that by force he should get a particular sign from Him. This type of force and power is indeed found in your Books and according to you, the Messiah used to show miracles of Godly power and he had bestowed such ability upon his disciples as well.

And you also believe that the Messiah is still alive, that he is the Living, the Self-Subsisting, the All-Powerful, and the Knower of the Unseen, and that he stays with you day and night, and he can give whatsoever you ask. So you should request Jesus Christ that upon your placing your hands upon these three afflicted ones, he should make them whole so some sign of faith may remain in you. Otherwise, this is not proper that while you enter into a debate with Ahl-e-Haqq [The People of the Truth] portraying yourselves as true Christians, but when the signs of true Christians are asked, you say that you lack the power to do so. By this statement, you deliver a confessionary judgement against yourselves that, at this time, your religion is not a living religion.

But we are ready to show signs according to what God Almighty has determined are the signs of true believers, and if we are unable to show such signs, then we are ready for any kind of punishment you wish to give. You may cut our throats with any knife you wish.

And that way of manifesting signs for which we have been appointed is that when a true and perfect Prophet is rejected, and a contest ensues, at that time, we will ask for some sign, most humbly, from God Almighty, who is our True and All-Powerful God. So He, by His own Will, and not as if He were our subject or under our authority, would show a sign in whatever manner He may choose.

You must think over this carefully that even Jesus, the Messiah, despite all your excessive exaggeration, was unable to show any, ‘at will’ signs of Divine power. It is written in Mark 8:11,12, ‘And the Pharisees came forth and began to question with him’—in other words, as I am now being questioned—‘seeking of him a sign from heaven, tempting him. And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation.’

Now look, the Jews asked to be shown a sign in this same manner, but the Messiah sighed and refused to show a sign. Now, look at another even stranger sort of an occasion that when the Messiah was put on the cross, at that time the Jews said: He saved others, but he cannot save himself. If he is the King of Israel, let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. Now, think carefully over this verse. The Jews declared openly and swore that if he now came down from the cross, they would believe in him. But Jesus could not come down. From all these references it is perfectly clear that showing a sign of Divine power ‘at will’ is not the prerogative of man, it is in fact in the hands of God.

And so similarly, at another place, the Messiah says in Matthew 12:38,10 ‘An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas.’ Now look here that Jesus did not accept their request. Instead, he told them what he knew from God Almighty. Similarly, I also present what I know from God Almighty. My claim is not that I am God or that I possess the authority to manifest Divine powers at will. And I am a Muslim man and follow the Holy Quran, and I claim salvation that is available based on the teachings of the Holy Quran. I do not claim to be a Prophet.

This is an error on your part, or you are saying this for a certain reason. Is it necessary that whosoever claims to receive revelation should also be a Prophet? I, in fact, belong to Muhammad(sa) and I am a perfect follower of Allah and His Messenger, and I do not wish to refer to these signs as miracles, but rather—according to my faith—these signs are called marvels that are given to one upon following Allah and His Messenger.

Now, I once again complete my argumentation for the sake of calling towards the truth, that this true salvation and the blessings and fruits of true salvation, are only to be found in those who follow Hazrat Muhammad, the Chosen One, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, and truly obey the commandments of the Holy Quran. And my claim, in accord with the Holy Quran, is only that if any Christian gentleman rejects this true salvation, which can be attained through the agency of the Holy Quran, then they have the right to present, in opposition to me, the heavenly Signs of true salvation by asking for them from their Messiah. But for now, in accordance with the conditions of this debate, I especially address in this regard, Deputy Abdullah Atham. This gentleman should prove that he possesses in himself the signs that are laid out by the Gospel as being characteristic of a true believer, and similarly, on this side, it shall be incumbent upon me that I prove to possess in myself those signs that the Noble Quran indicates are the signs of a true believer. But it should be known that the Noble Quran does not bestow on us any authority to show signs at will. Indeed, our bodies tremble upon uttering any such word. We do not know what type of sign He will show. He alone is God, and there is no god beside Him.

Notwithstanding—yes, this is a strong vow by us, that just as Allah, the Lord of Glory, has made it clear to me that I will surely be victorious at the time of a contest; however, it is not known how exactly God shall show a sign; the only objective being that it be a sign beyond the powers of a human being. Is it necessary that a humble man should be held up to be God and a sign of Divine power—at will—be demanded of him? This is not what our religion teaches nor is it our belief.

Allah, the Lord of Glory, promises to show us signs only in general and universal terms. If I prove false in this, I would be willing to accept any punishment that is suggested, even if it be death, but if leaving behind the bounds of justice and reasonableness, you demand from me such signs as even His Eminence, Jesus, was unable to show—indeed, he hurled one or two abuses upon the petitioner—so even to speak of showing such signs is, in my way of thinking, tantamount to disbelief.